Andrew from 123Systems emailed me about their new fleet of servers in Chicago. They want to fill those boxes up so let’s see whether LowEndBox readers can help :)
Use promo code LEBSTOCK55 to get 55% off recurring discount when you order annually or biannually. That’s $37.73/year with the following VPS package
- 256MB guaranteed/512MB burstable memory
- 10GB storage
- 500GB/month data transfer
- OpenVZ/SolusVM
All VPS are “managed” by 123Systems.
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The Founder at LowEndBox
The original owner of LowEndBox known as LowEndAdmin or LEA for short founded LowEndBox in 2008 and created the concept of hosting applications on low resource Low End Boxes. After creating the roots of the community that we know today, LEA stepped aside and allowed others to carry the torch forward.
Latest posts by LEA (see all)
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Hi, are you still planning to get servers in EU?
We will be getting those soon enough, We are trying to get servers distributed in more places in the US before going overseas.
Hey everyone,
I am a LEB reader, in fact that’s how I found 123systems.net, through the June promo. I just cancelled my account with them. Their customer support representatives were rude and confrontational to me. My only request was that passwords not be emailed in the clear. If you choose your own password, why should it then be emailed to you? This is inherently insecure. And they continued to email it to me, despite this being completely unnecessary.
Their support representative kept claiming their email was secure and encrypted. Apparently he thinks that connecting to an SMTP server using SSL means the email is secure. Of course, once it leaves that MTA is is insecure for the rest of its life on the internet, until it reaches my inbox. Instead of acknowledging a poor policy on their part, he continued to argue with me.
This is a big deal to me because this server was already compromised, either due to the original introductory email, or thorugh the lack of SSL on their web site control panel. (For the record, they do have SSL, but it is on a nonstandard port and they don’t inform you of it.) It was then reimaged and my data was lost. Fortunately this server itself was a backup server so no critical data was lost.
Another thing that bothered me was that decided to move my VPS to another machine. Fine, but when? They didn’t plan a specific maintenance window. Moreover, they also said, “We’re going to be changing your IP as well.” But they didn’t tell me my new IP so I could plan ahead for DNS propogation at the non-specified maintenance window. Also, no reason why they’re moving machines, other than they din’t like it. I suppose they’re renting servers and had a problem with their host and moved us to a different host, and didn’t own the IP’s themselves.
Anyway, the whole saga was quite unprofessional. Just a warning to you all.
^
It is secure when it leaves, It’s not our problem what happens to it afterward, We nor any other company is going to take responsibility for something like that, If that’s what you want then go complain to someone who can do something about it.
I read the ticket, He told you to please <- note he asked nicely, stop replying as the matter was closed and you was doing nothing but slowing down support for people who actually needed it, (He asked you 3 times) you chose to be immature and continue replying with your "It's your fault! You sent passwords via email!". Get real we send out over 200 passwords daily and this has never happened to any of our other clients. You sir need to step back and look at reality. Your password was 5 characters long and i could have guessed it without thinking about it.
If you wanted to connect to the Panel using SSL you should have asked for the port instead of logging in. That is not our fault nor do we take responsibility for your inability to open a ticket. We still have the servers in Phoenix, we only migrated (1) of them due to hardware malfunctions. We could have moved you to another server in Phoenix but we chose to move everyone to chicago as the servers in Phoenix are already filled and we can not place anymore VM's on them. Yes if you prefer we leave your data on an crippling server by all means request it!
The 'saga' was unprofessional on your end not ours.
Did I not say their support was rude and confrontational?
Ladies and gentlemen, I rest my case.
(PS – my password was 8 chars and a combination of upper, lower, and numbers.)
My point about the server move is that you didn’t tell us in advance when the move would be, or what our new IP’s would be. We just had to wait and update our DNS at some point after the move, whenever you sent out the email with our new IP’s.
Sorry, that’s no way to treat a customer.
I’m not being rude, I’m telling you how it is. We deal with customers like you all the time, You are nothing new. You can’t take responsibility for things that might have been caused by your mistakes so you decide to blame it on someone else, Well go for it. But we are not going to stand by and let you do it without confronting you, My staff was nothing but nice to you. Heck they even compensated for your server being reimaged even though it was NOT our fault, That says more than enough.
Everyone had a (3) hour advance notice before we started migrations. We can not tell you new IP’s before they are assigned now can we?
You know what would have been helpful? If you would have said that the migration was to happen in three hours. Here is the body of your email:
“If your VPS currently has an IP address beginning with, 68.168.*.* you will be migrated to a new server and you will receive a new IP address.
Why? Because that server is currently undergoing quite a few issues and we are wanting to get all of our clients off it it, No data will be lost the only change you will see is an new IP address.”
In fact, I received that email yesterday at 9:53 AM, with the new IP yesterday at 5:31 PM.
Can you point to a single instance when I have ever specifically said “it’s your fault”, or blamed you for my server being reimaged? It’s a VPS and when one buys a VPS, they should take responsibility for their own security. And they do.
However, your policies do not help those of us who are trying to manage our own security. Sending passwords in the clear increase the probability of our servers being hacked. It may be 1 out of 200, or 1 out of 1,000. The point is that it’s a common security practice not to send passwords in the clear. Otherwise, wouldn’t we all still be using telnet and FTP?
Instead of putting my suggestion to good use, you immediately got defensive and accuse me of “blaming” you. This is nonsense. I was simply asking you to conform to common security standards and best practices, to minimize the likelohood of my server getting hacked.
I am really just befuddled. Can anyone really argue in favor of cleartext passwords?
Sure not a problem, The opening ticket body says it all.
A new support ticket has been opened.
Client: Ryan Kirk
Department: Support
Subject: Re: VPS IP Reallocation (New IP)
Priority: Medium
Could you PLEASE STOP emailing the password??!! This has already led to one
compromise of this server.
RK
Wow. So you are now publishing to the internet the private emails I sent to you, without my consent?
Regardless, I see nothing wrong with my email. You had already emailed the password twice and the server had been compromised once. If you lost a server and someone else was being careless with your password, wouldn’t you be a little annoyed?
Look, even if I am wrong (and I’m not), any business should treat its customers with respect. This is just shameful.
Andrew, what is your physical mailing address? I can’t find it anywhere on your site.
No i surely am not, I am sending an email that was sent from bounce-back@123systems.net to support@123systems.net.
You asked me to show you where you stated it was our fault, I did so.
They treated you with respect, You just did not have the maturity to return the favor.
How many times did they email you your password? Granted, the first provisioning email is kind of hard to avoid unless you offer self provisioning (something like Linode).
Twice, The first provisioning email and the automated email sent after the IP address change. <- note the word automated. It's an E-mail template.
From a user’s perspective, if they care about security, that already forces them to change their password twice and update their documentation twice. Every time it’s sent in the clear, it should be changed.
Andrew, can you please post your business’s physical mailing address? I live in California and under California Law (AB55 and AB1000, the California Corporate Disclosure Act), you are required to disclose your mailing address if you do business in California.
AZGuy, it is self-provisioned. You choose your own password (and type it in during sign-up) twice.
It is disclosed if you can not find it please request assistance locating it, I have no interest in posting addresses on a blog to satisfy your bruised ego. But rest assured it is there and easily findable.
No its not self-provision, The password you enter is for SVM, Not for the server. (2) separate passwords are given to you after provision one being SVM the other being the server.
@ryan
My other VPS hostings do the same thing, the sent my password in clear text. Just change them immediately :)
Andrew, your comment #13 just showed up for some reason. Anyway, nowhere in that email do I accuse you of hacking the server. I do believe that cleartext passwords led to the compromise of it. How is this difference not clear to you?
I feel that the publishing of support emails are a breach of privacy. The fact that you are doing it just to prove a point is even worse.
By the way, I’m not the first one the Andrew has berated in the comments on this blog. See this thread: http://www.lowendbox.com/blog/2host-4-04-128mb-xen-vps-with-10tb/
This Andrew guy is very rude.
You are in a business where you offer services to people. They pay you with $. so you should care on what they want or what they need.
don’t act like an @$$. It ruins your company’s image/reputation.
I was not being rude, He came here to air dirty laundry and didn’t tell the whole story, I have a right to defend my company,my staff, and all assets relating to it, As does anyone else. We do not need to take abuse from a client that is only paying 3$ a month.
Andrew, your support email is now bouncing with PHP errors and nobody has responded to my ticket. You have my email address, so will you just send me your mailing address?
“We do not need to take abuse from a client that is only paying 3$ a month”
Does it matter how much the client is paying? :)
123Systems support is always abusing.
lol @ “We do not need to take abuse from a client that is only paying 3$ a month.”
great! another company that I will never want to do business with. If only all those companies were as forthcoming to show their complete disinterest in customer satisfaction, then it’d make the choice for a good service provider just so much easier!
When I had a VPS over at 123Systems, Their support was nothing but amazing, never had a rude one. If anything they tell you how it is. Honestly I’d rather hear it that way rather than having someone sugar it up nice and sweet and not get to the point. I dont see how Andrew is in the wrong? He is defending himself and his company like he should.