Welcome to the world of LimeStoneNetworks, whereby you send an unsolicited, unrequested, unwelcome email to a host soliciting your products and services. That host replies unfavourably to your actions and then creates a discussion regarding the situation. What’s the solution? Well if you’re a LimeStoneNetworks customer and awaiting a reply to your support tickets you could understand the slight delay due to Kris being awfully busy making a DMCA takedown request his main priority.
Now I have never been huge on conspiracy theories, but here’s one I may need a bit of tin foil to finish it off with. Around 10 minutes after the DMCA rolled in LET received a gift wrapped in DDOS and delivered repeatedly, what timing? Much was never thought of it until it was passed on from a LimeStoneNetworks customer that “if it was us they wouldn’t be back online!” Nice Kris, real professional! But then again, what do you expect from the host that hosts HackForums? Or did the general public and those utilising LimeStoneNetwork’s services miss that bit? Yes that forum renowned for where you can pay to access Botnets, DDOS Services and malicious content tools like phishing and malware, it’s all happily part of the LimeStoneNetworks network.
Now that bit of useless trivia is out there for you to ponder and mull over, the crux of LimeStoneNetwork’s DMCA is that Kris owns copyright of the unsolicited/spam email that he sent to 24KHost, which 24KHost then created a discussion around. Finally, so there is no ambiguity about the tactics used by LimeStoneNetworks, up until this point of publishing the only contact from LimeStoneNetworks has been the DMCA forwarded to us by ColoCrossing, at no point did any representative from LimeStoneNetworks flag the post they found an issue with, nor did they use our helpdesk to contact us or our contact email address.
UPDATE: LimeStoneNetworks’ DMCA now included.
Screenshot:
Return-Path: <hfaccount@hackforums.net>
Received: from ns3.zanmo.com ([216.245.194.194])
NetRange 216.245.192.0 – 216.245.223.255
CIDR 216.245.192.0/19
Name LSN-DLLSTX-1
Handle NET-216-245-192-0-1
Parent NET216 (NET-216-0-0-0-0)
Net Type Direct Allocation
Origin AS AS46475
Organization Limestone Networks, Inc. (LIMES-2)
Registration Date 2008-01-28
Last Updated 2012-02-24
Comments http://www.limestonenetworks.com/
RESTful Link http://whois.arin.net/rest/net/NET-216-245-192-0-1
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GAME OVER, MAN.
GAME OVER.
What a fracking joke, man I had to much popcorn today…
Lol, I had too much Monster…. lol
Ha, I wish I had some…
Can we get the take down notice posted?
Notify me of followup comments via e-mail
Good idea
I’d like some email as well tyvm :)
Me too!
Wouldn’t it be better if LEB could make a “subscribe” button? :P
*Subscribing*
Just stupid! They start fck people. Time move to offshore man :)
Kind of sad, They seems lime a bad network now I know why, The owner is to busy ddosing people he doesn’t like ?
I would never believed this will happen, I frankly thought was a joke when ppl were talking about it…
In the end i think it was a good ending, but the simple fact it happened means it is a mad world out there, it means threats work so often that ppl dont even think and use them automatically.
I wish we had more communities like this, at times silly and infighting but staying as one when basic principles are threatened.
M
After I posted the origional email, and recieved the threat. I advised Cheif right away. As I was ready to take the ban from LET for causing trouble.
@Cheif after last weeks hubub over my over stepping, I was for sure this was going to be my end at LET. I do thank you for standing up to them on this.
@Maounique No Jokes. The fact that the community was in my and LET’s corner was awesome.
are they silent right now? maybe preparing legal actions?
When you receive a bogus DMCA from some douche who is abusing the DMCA law in a pitiful attempt to prevent public criticism of their poor business practices you should submit the DMCA notice to the Electronic Frontier Foundation’s http://www.ChillingEffects.org database so they can publish it.
If the DMCA is completely bogus you can also submit it for consideration in the EFF’s takedown Hall of Shame http://www.eff.org/takedown
After the thread in WHT, not it’s expanding.
Hm.. Maybe I need to try to purchase a server to host my own ot for ddosing
Updated to include DMCA.
Yet to receive any apology from LimeStoneNetworks
I asked them on WHT to make a direct apology to the LEB staff, we’ll see if they follow through.
They did a blanket ‘apology’ but given it could have caused LEB a lot of issues with colocrossing, I expect them to kiss a lot more ass.
I guess it’s a good thing I’m not in charge around here or I’d simply apply a blanket ban stating any host using them is no longer allowed a front page post until LSN sends that apology. :)
Francisco
thanks for sharing
I wish they thought this over 100x like a chess player before making that move
Well, I was considering using them for a new project, but after this I don’t like the idea of being associated with them :/
So… about that penalty of perjury for filing an invalid DMCA take down notice…
What a freaking joke.
Anyone (LimeStoneNetworks) who does such *stupid* and *fraudulent* pseudo legal actions (DMCA take down) to silence critics (Lowendbox/Talk) of their actions deserves to not only have their voice muted (suit for invalid pseudo legal process, abuse of power, perjury, etc.) but also should be kicked in their pocketbook (customer financial boycott).
Forget apologies. Someone needs to stand up to the bully.
Who else is LimeStoneNetworks / Kris threatening like this?
Hackforums.net needs to go. It isn’t free speech to spam, deface, break into things, request DDoS attacks, etc.
Lol. How very professional, to think we were considering them for our US expansion a few week back, thank you @Chief. Honesty is the best policy.
I honestly don’t understand how they’re hosted in the US, maybe I need to start sending LSN some fake DMCA’s on HackForums.
did Kris lost his bowl of rice? If he is the one who issued the notice,
LSN is a good host but . not anymore.
Hmmm, is that like a requisite to have bogus DMCA takedown notices accompanied by DDOS attacks nowadays. Times have changed.
Sooo much popcorn… What’s with October so far?? ;’)
I have a VPS with a provider at Limestone Networks – I will surely be cancelling the account, as I do not support companies that behave like this.
What provider?
Dunno about this lamestone. Big company or not, doesn’t matter. It’s just stupid…
LimeStone was on the list of providers we were thinking of moving to after our contract expired with OVH in December.
They’ve just lost a potential customer.
Good choice :)
Don’t you think the LEB/LET response is a bit… petty? Admittedly I have not been a fan of LSN for some time after they sent threatening messages to family relatives after a domain I used to own (limestonenetworksucks.com) had expired and was (out of my control) parked to a page advertising porno sites as it had expired. But putting their pettiness aside from the past, the LEB/LET response to this is petty. This is one thing LEA would NEVER have partaken in, using the blog to create uproar.
“Much was never thought of it until it was passed on from a LimeStoneNetworks customer that “if it was us they wouldn’t be back online!” Nice Kris, real professional!”
Passed on? Lol. Ever heard of a sciolist? It’s probably absolute BS. If there’s one thing Kris is, it’s professional. There’s no way he’d relax to the point of lowering himself like that.
“But then again, what do you expect from the host that hosts HackForums?”
UK2 used to host the BNP website, so what? It’s custom at the end of the day and so long as they aren’t breaking any laws in what’s on the servers, where’s the issue? This isn’t the moral court, is it?
“the only contact from LimeStoneNetworks has been the DMCA forwarded to us by ColoCrossing, at no point did any representative from LimeStoneNetworks flag the post they found an issue with, nor did they use our helpdesk to contact us or our contact email address.”
That is NOT any DMCA policy for any provider. Complaints get forwarded to the upstream provider, who in this case, is ColoCrossing. They followed protocol perfectly.
“Steve:
LimeStone was on the list of providers we were thinking of moving to after our contract expired with OVH in December.
They’ve just lost a potential customer.”
You clearly aren’t a good customer to have then, are you?
With regards to hosts sending our emails to potential customers – that’s the way sales works. Unsolicited ‘spam’ is mostly routed via an unsolicited ‘mailer’. This was not, this was a personal written sales approach to a potential customer – no rules broken. The idiots who start making threads about it tend to be those who don’t do so well themselves on the sales front and most of their sales are direct rather than own-generated leads.
In summary: Grow up.
“[…]this was a personal written sales approach to a potential customer[…]”
Give me a fucking break. There is nothing personal about that email. Even if you pick your target demographic well,
unsolicited mass emailing like this is spam. Routing doesn’t make any difference, because obviously they cannot sell
their shit anonymously anyway.
I agree it’s a lot of drama for a such a small matter. But my pity for LSN is manageable, considering the
incredible stupidity this was handled with.
Jason, you’ve been around here for years, and I’ve noticed you’re nothing but a troll.
Your opinion does not matter to me. You’re the one that needs to grow up.
Agree :)
It’s to be expected, hf is made up of kiddies crying over xbox live anyways.
Not like hf is really worth anything.
Looks like all the LEB Host’s will be leaving LSN. XD
Massive failure for limestonenetworks. It made me laugh looking at the DMCA, I’d just ignore it because its prefectly legal to keep it there.
I love it how limestonenetworks just digs their own grave.
Lmfao…All large dedi server providers market like this…I’ve had e-mails from softlayer, the planet(back befor SL bought them), and single hop. They all do it. It’s a common way to market. So if you’re never going to use LSN for this reason I guess you will never use any of the big guys. Oh ColoCrossing uses this tactic too…soooo…I guess LET should leave them as well?
You kids obviously know nothing about sales and growing a business…
Yes it was wrong to send the DMCA, but Kris asked him to take it down before sending the DMCA, and all the OP did was remove the signature(kind of a kick in the face if you ask me) Also Richard and Kris both apologized directly to the OP before the DMCA was sent.
I’m sure these threads will hurt their business incredibly, all the little 1 and 2 server kiddos from this forum aren’t going to use their servers anymore =X oh noes
Grow up and learn how the real business world works. Not your little fantasy low end VPS bs.
More “This is how business works” dribble. You must be a salesman yourself to defend this action, as this is not how business works. I have never received UCE from any dedi provider, the only dedi email I have ever received is from QuadraNet, where I colo, and for them to email me promotions is perfectly fine, but someone to cold call me via email, that is absolutely not how business works.
Since everyone here is a kid in your eyes, why not enroll yourself in a few ethics courses, you clearly need to learn some.
More so acting like kids than actually being so. Also as a business owner I would hope that you consider yourself a salesman…otherwise I could see why your business would fail.
I have actually sold ice to an eskimo, and being in the biz for the past 18 years, failure is not even a passing thought, and I can tell you for a fact, ethical business does not work as you seem to think. Move along with your snake oil, nobody around here is buying.
You’re missing the obvious point, 24khost had every right in the world to post that topic. Any “Smart” business wouldn’t give a rat’s ass about some random thread on some forum……… They blew this way out of proportion filing a false dmca just to try to show someone that they are “tough”? Well look what happens when you try to act “tough”. There is a time in business when you just need to act “humble” / learn to “ignore” gossip. I see none of this with LSN.
Also 24khost didn’t even want to start crap, he was just acknowledging the email really…
Doesn’t seem like he was just acknowledging the e-mail based on his 2nd comment…
“24khost October 11
Member
@Liam good point! I just couldn’t believe that I got this email. As Yoda would say -> Struggling to get new customers are they?”
Looks like it was to bash them based on an e-mail to reach out to customers instead of sit and wait for customers to come in.
Obviously the original thread was an attempt to start crap, though he says it wasn’t. It was a poor decision on both parties. 24khost shouldn’t have posted it, LSN shouldn’t have issued the DMCA.
When I get e-mails like this from providers I just mark them as spam, or make a filter in my outlook to weed out that provider. Or I just reply with no thanks, and please do not contact me. I can go pull out nearly identical e-mails from all the major providers, but I won’t post them publicly to make them seem like they are “struggling for new customers”
Both parties were wrong in what they did.
I partially agree as in making a thread about a spam email is kind of childish. But LSN is mostly in the wrong because they could have just simply ignored the whole situation? If they did, this wouldn’t even happened. Sure you can say the email was spam or not spam, that’s irrelevant as filing a DMCA over someone posting about your company on a random forum is ludicrous.
Oh and for those of you that haven’t seen the WHF thread this comment was hilarious, seems like the OP is a real smart guy!:
John on October 11, 2012 at 6:59 pm said:
Funny to me how the server provider is automatically ‘guilty until proven innocent’. And you’re saying the victim isn’t a ‘noob’ and has ‘experience’ in the industry?
– There’s an “email marketing” link on the “victim’s” business website.
– PHP 5.3.17, Apache 2.2.23 (base) according to unsecured phpinfo, and
– http://headstew.com/new_breeze/ (what the f***?)
– 9/23/12 reported DDoS
– Free? http://www.freewebspace.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-2234849.html
– Anonymous FTP running w/o restrictions
– Kernel 2.6.32-042stab049.6 old. Like, really old. Like, almost a year.
– It is called the “CAN-SPAM” act. “Canned SPAM”, as the “victim” referred to, is a mass-produced gum-based pork product.
“this guy” has a configuration that insults all of the hard work I’ve put into my business and should be researched to verify that he’s not trying to cover his own ass for ‘conduct unbecoming’, if you will.
All this is very interesting…
However, we are not judging the OP here as the post about a random mail that he considers spam is not a problem where free speech should operate. OK, there were mistakes on all parts, but there should be no fear in expressing opinions, if I say your business sucks, even if I am wrong, will you send a DMCA takedown against the forum/paper/video site provider because you dont like my opinion ? If I post an email I received without any prior consent or contractual relationship which says I am not allowed to publish it, then you will consider it an original creation and ask the host to take down the forum/video sharing site because they infringe your IP rights on your email you would have made millions if you were selling ? I suppose I am not allowed to show ransom letters to the press, for example, because the mob will issue some DMCA against the publishers ? Or i will be sued because it says I should not publish it ?
DMCA has a strict purpose, using it outside of that purpose must be punished, not only by exposing such acts, but also by a hefty fine so any company will think twice before abusing it again.
I suppose nobody in their right mind considers that a fair use of DMCA, right ?
M
I will completely agree LSN was in the wrong on using a DMCA to silence the OP. Oh well, stuff happens, people learn, we go on with our lives. LSN is a great company, and my services with them will definitely stay. Their support is amazing, tickets are answered in under a few minutes, the high tier tickets(being unmanaged servers) is very cheap for the help they give you, and I’ve never had a network or hardware issue in the 2 years I’ve been with them. With that said, one little mistake that will most likely never happen again (nor have I heard of it happening before with LSN) will change my provider.
-Vael
Will not* change my provider…lol
Vael said “I’ve never had a network or hardware issue in the 2 years I’ve been with them.”
In the 14 years I’ve been renting dedicated servers I’ve had a total of 4 hard drive failures and 3 of those HD failures came during the 3 1/2 years I was with Limestone Networks. The proof:
————-
Support Ticket Response – Ticket #20248
Date Opened: 04-29-09 04:37 PM
Status: Open
We apologies for the delay, however the reload was halted due to an eminent drive failure. We have restarted the reload with a new HDD and will update the ticket as soon as the reload is completed.
Thanks,
John
——————-
Support Ticket Response – Ticket #36579
Date Opened: 10-04-09 07:28 AM
Status: Open
Hello Todd,
Upon consoling your machine we discovered the monitor displaying a disk read error,
upon hitting enter it took us to a kernel list which we chose the default..
It rebooted the machine to which BIOS is not detecting the drive at all
now, we have tried booting up multiple times to the BIOS not detecting
the drive at all.
This is an unrecoverable error at which we are forced to replace
your hard drive.
We have replaced the drive and are now reinstalling your OS.
This should be completed within 1-4 hours.
Respectfully,
Jeff
Support Team
———————-
Support Ticket Response – Ticket #61084
Date Opened: 05-05-10 04:54 AM
Status: Open
Hello,
Your server’s hard-drive has failed completed.
We are replacing the damaged drive and will be reloading your OS shortly.
Respectfully,
Jeff
Support Team
<3
♥
I have never been doing my business with this company.
The world. Will keep on turning. Competition.
I love penguins! <3
I love VPS’s!
This whole thing doesn’t make sense, it’s just that they suck and are desperately trying to get clients.
I think LSN will suffer a bit with this
Simply disturbing.
ridiculous…
I’ll probably reconsider when buying VPS if it’s hosted at LimeStone. :)
Why so?
I agree Kris was Over the top with the DMCA he sent but not purchasing from them due to it?
That’s a bit harsh. Why would a provider that uses their services ( which I get the general feeling are good ) have to be punished ? They are not to be blamed for the actions of LSN.
If the provider offers great service, why do you care if it’s hosted with LSN ? You would have a contract per-say with the provider not LSN.
I think that “Emil Vals” meant that he won’t buy VPS from LSN and not that he won’t buy services from people which have their sites hosted on VPS servers from LSN
“if it’s hosted at LimeStone” IMHO, That pretty much covers LSN and providers.
That escalated quickly..
Not limestone for me ever..!
Just another example of a company abusing the DMCA to censor criticism. Perhaps Kris should look up the term ‘Streisand Effect’.
Never been a fan of LSN, Never will be. :)
Never liked LSN anyway; this just is the final confirmation that I wont go near them…
So much for that apology.
Limestone networks brings back horrible memories of hostrail
–> disturbing our business because spamming
I’ll have a VpS
DMCA for criticism with a DDoS on top.
Welcome to the “professional” world…
So much drama here. xD
“OK, there were mistakes on all parts,”
Limestone seems to have a history of making mistakes without thinking through the implications…like the mistake of naming their control panel “Rockware” when a software maker in Colorado already held 4 registered trademarks on the use of the name “Rockware” for software products. Oops!
http://dockets.justia.com/docket/colorado/codce/1:2011cv02390/128312/
They are now silent, hopefully not cooking something bad
Unbelievable. Copyrights to spam. LOL
I wonder what they are currently cooking up due to the community reaction to it all…surely they can see it building up to critical mass.
What a shame.
Well wow.
Hahaha! Popcorn!
Wow… I didn’t expect this from Limestone Networks… now I feel very stupid for feeling sorry for them. It seems they are the bad guys. No support for LSN anymore, I’ve learnt my lesson.
shame on them!
LSN deserves everything they got and the shitty rep this will bring. They where wrong and don’t want to admit it publicly due to they still think there’s something they can protect.
I swear, I hope another e-mail is sent out to someone soon that has seen this thread and posts it also.
I enjoyed reading on WHT how people where trying to bash Francisco/BuyVM for standing up for what was “RIGHT” for Lowendbox/OP and giving his own thought behind it all and peoples comments back to him where quite amusing. LSN sucks, always have.
I would have banned them from this community as a whole. Just ban there IP ranges, then they will even have a bigger problem on there hands. A big portion of there customers will be bitching at them for causing this mess.
Anti-LSN Act! Ftw.
LSN is honestly a joke. Against my suggestion, a LEB host moved to LimeStone. While we were moving his boxes, a hard drive died… on a new machine.
That should have been a heads up.
Over the 6 months they’ve been there, 5 drives have completely failed on machines. When I went into their web interface, they were using WD CAVIAR BLUE (Consumer Desktop) drives and mixing them with other drive types.
Talk about grab bag hardware with no testing.
Avoid these people like the plague, there’s a reason they’re barely hanging on.
Funny threat – found it when googling “limstonenetworks criminal activities” as they seem to be a no. 1 provider for crinminal spammer/scammer pigs.
Good dmca ignored here https://bpserv.host/.