We’ve covered Kiwi Farms extensively over the last couple of months.
Previously, Joshua Moon was upset over Hurricane Electric dropping his routes.
Then a lot of attention/outrage/PR was born out of that situation with absolutely nothing to show for it.
In fact, some hosts that were formerly positioning the state of Washington as some type of free speech haven have since silently dropped that angle entirely from their advertisements.
Instead, they are now just “freedom of speech” hosts that have proven they’re entirely powerless to keep anything online to the type of person that would need their services most, which begs the question: why not drop the freedom of speech angle entirely?
We need to put a stop to freedom of speech LARPing in 2024 like hate crime/speech and harassment laws don’t exist (yes, there are exceptions to the First Amendment).
I digress:
The point is, the last time Kiwi Farms was de-platformed, despite massive outrage, nothing happened.
No lawsuits came out of it, and Kiwi Farms simply moved to an alternative host that wasn’t using Hurricane Electric.
Fast forward to a couple of days ago, instead of Hurricane Electric being the “bad guy” for having the right to choose who they do business with and allow on their network…
Now Cogent is:
This Is All a Bit Cringe at This Point
I mean, honestly, isn’t this all a bit tiring?
It’s the same thing all over again—Kiwi Farms is being de-platformed because they don’t moderate their site, and it produces harmful and hateful content.
It always goes back to the upstreams. Primarily because all of these hosts use the exact same upstreams like HE and Cogent.
You can tell Joshua Moon is starting to crack, though:
The person he’s referencing being “evicted” from a data center, by the way, is @wdmg. As far as I know, he lasted like 6 months, and that’s the longest a Kiwi Farms’ host has lasted.
In the same thread where he announces the “Cogent censorship,” he continues by bragging he can circumvent censorship via Tor with “one click” (which is true, and is why my original article specifically referenced the clearnet–making this entire situation even more so pointless):
He then expands by stating, “Cogent is doing this as a private company,” fully recognizing a private business in a free market has the right to choose who they do business with.
Of course, due to the PR genius Joshua Moon is, he follows that up by putting down the EFF who published a piece saying it was bad to de-platform Kiwi Farms.
Victim vs. Aggressor
The consistent narrative you’ll see pushed by Joshua Moon is that:
- Kiwi Farms is just a platform (though he personally profits off of it, and intentionally engages in it, inciting behavior from his radicalized audience)
- Kiwi Farms is a victim of censorship and de-platforming
Mostly he’ll point fingers at Liz Fong-Jones as the cause of all of his de-platforming troubles (by the way, Liz Fong-Jones did just win a $400,000 lawsuit in Australia against the APNIC company responsible for Kiwi Farms’ IP space).
In terms of me specifically, though…
If you ask him, both Liz Fong-Jones and Path.net paid me to write smear campaigns about Kiwi Farms (they didn’t):
Also, note the “company owned by pedophiles” part—while I’m not commenting on the whole Path.net situation, pretty much anyone that Kiwi Farms dislikes automatically becomes a pedophile.
To Joshua Moon (and anyone else who profits off of the continued hosting of Kiwi Farms), Kiwi Farms is perpetually the victim and never the aggressor.
It’s just some tiny guy being picked on by the big bad system, totally innocent of wrong doing.
But personally? I don’t see it like that. I see Kiwi Farms as an aggressor.
For example, the last time Kiwi Farms was de-platformed, Joshua Moon personally called out a man named Patrick Gilmore who works at Meta:
That same man had his wife’s nudes leaked on Kiwi Farms’ platform later on.
A comment on his recent Cogent thread even mentions it:
How can you view this as a site that deserves to exist?
How can you not see this action as personally incited by Joshua Moon?
Patrick Gilmore and his wife are the victim here. And so is everyone else targeted by Kiwi Farms.
These LGBTQ+ members, and whatever marginalized individual of choice that week over at Kiwi Farms didn’t choose to be harassed.
Don’t buy into the victim narrative.
Why Do Freedom of Speech Absolutists Love Attempting To Censor Opposing Views?
Ever since the original article came out, practically everyone involved on the other side that profits off of Kiwi Farms in some fashion has tried to pressure me/LEB to stop publishing opposing view points.
For example, here’s what Joshua Moon sent in to LowEndBox:
This author,
1. Has set up a logger on my Telegram to record everything said there.
2. Acknowledges that the Kiwi Farms briefly (for under 24 hours) used SprintPL as a reverse-proxy.
3. Publishes a list of LolekHosting subnets which does not intersect the IP address aforementioned in the A record.
4. Insists that the Federal Police of Poland seized an entire datacenter for hosting the Kiwi Farms in under 24 hours.
5. Ignores the fact that Hosteam, our other reverse-proxy, is also in Poland.This is an egregious, deliberate misrepresentation of facts that is tantamount to accusing me and my website of criminal behavior for the purpose of making it increasingly difficult for an already beleaguered, US-legal community to find Internet service during an era of unprecedented corporate censorship.
I hope that you have the integrity to investigate this person’s intentions and his abuse of your SEO prominence for his personal political agendas.
I disagree with your site and what it stands for and have written legal content documenting your site being de-platformed, therefore you’re going to send legal threats to the site I write for?
How is that not incredibly contradictory?
It should go to show you this has never been about freedom of speech. Freedom of speech is only a good narrative to tap into.
The reality is this is just about some guy desperately trying to hang onto his cash cow. He will gladly send you legal threats surrounding your speech that opposes him.
Does It Even Matter Kiwi Farms Is Being De-Platformed?
Admittedly, this is probably my last article discussing Kiwi Farms. I feel like I’ve already said everything that needs to be said.
The topic is worn out by this point and just feels like I’m watching a snake consume its own tail.
Once you stand back and look at the situation, the entire situation truthfully is an entire joke trying to be cloaked beneath a contradictory “freedom of speech” argument to get people personally emotionally invested in the outcome of some guys’ site.
The reality is unless Joshua Moon drops his ego, changes his moderation policies, and goes on a very serious PR run renouncing many of his takes and past, Kiwi Farms will continue to be de-platformed.
Especially when you’re actively starting beefs with some of the internets most influential individuals.
And that’s a good thing in my opinion. I don’t think a site like Kiwi Farms has any place to exist in a modern society.
People shouldn’t have targeted harassment sent to them on the basis of things like identity, sexuality, race, or religion.
But at the same time, I understand people and the internet well enough to know Kiwi Farms will never go away.
Joshua Moon has already created an unstoppable movement that, while strongly influenced by him, is bigger than him.
For the time being, we’ll keep seeing Joshua Moon using these burner hosts and reverse proxies to keep Kiwi Farms online.
Then, worst-case scenario (or best-case, depending on perspective), the site will go underground to Tor.
After that? Let’s say Joshua Moon does get held legally responsible for the actions caused by Kiwi Farms. Even if Joshua Moon is doing a few years, another Kiwi Farms fork would be out within a month.
I knew it was all utterly pointless from the start.
It doesn’t matter if you cancel Joshua Moon or Kiwi Farms; you can’t cancel the radicalization and ideology caused by the movement the site created.
Related Posts:
- Path.net Seeks Discord Subpoena for Ex-Employee and Competitor’s Data - December 12, 2023
- Interviewing Christopher Cantwell - December 6, 2023
- Uptime Kuma: Your New Favorite Self-Hosted Uptime Monitoring Tool - December 1, 2023
Lowendtalk doesn’t allow a community-run thread about Cognet censoring the internet, but they do allow your opinion piece, which should have been written in a personal journal instead of on an SEO-optimized hosting news website. It’s sad to see.
It’s even more sad to see you impersonate somebody that’s already proven in a court of law that a lot of what the forum does is in fact harmful to one’s well being.
I feel sorry for you cuz, you’ve been deceived and lied to by a man who is taking advantage of his userbase in the most scummy way possible. Please walk away from that life, and find something more productive to do.
Trust me, you won’t regret it!
You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. He “won” the lawsuit because Vincent didn’t bother to reply to it. He was also suing for defamation, which has nothing to do with “harmful to one’s well-being.”
You are just wrong, repeating information you received from a Twitter post. Just like every other person of gender, you lack the ability to think for yourself.
Again, I feel bad for ya cuz. Kiwi Farms isn’t really the best place for people like you.
And believe it or not! Liz is defending your right to remain Anonymous online. Nobody should put out your personal information like that without your approval.
Good day sir.
I just wanna say, IDK WTF this kiwifarms is, but those incels are stupid AF.
Let them die, let the topic die, the drama is not interesting, no one cares who censors their brain dead opinions.
Kiwifarms is a terrible site and it scares me that it exists.
But even more scary is watching independent tech companies decide what content gets to exist on the internet.
relax cuz, only reason these ISPs took action was because KF didn’t follow their rules.
As the ancient hawaiians used to say:
“respect the waves or the waves eat you.”
Dayum Josh cuz you’re off your rocker!
Just take the money off your gullible users and walk away. It’s not that hard brudda.
The consistent narrative I see pushed by Joshua Moon is that his website is legal and as such has a right to be on the world wide web.
Isn’t he using illegal software (XenForo without a valid license) to host his forum?
The content that cogent wanted Null to take down, included stuff like revenge porn and stolen nudes.
Most of what Null refers to as “Leaks of Public Interest” were revenge porn or stolen nudes. One example was a Kiwifarms user leaking nudes of their ex in order to blackmail them. Another example was someone sharing a youtuber’s nudes that were stolen by a hacker.
This was mentioned by the users in the thread on kiwifarms about cogent blocking them.
hacking, nonconsensual pornography, and revenge porn are illegal in most of the usa.
The content that cogent wanted Null to take down, included stuff like revenge porn and stolen nudes.
Most of what Null refers to as “Leaks of Public Interest” were revenge porn or stolen nudes. One example was a Kiwifarms user leaking nudes of their ex in order to blackmail them. Another example was someone sharing a youtuber’s nudes that were stolen by a hacker.
This was mentioned by the users in the thread on kiwifarms about cogent blocking them.
hacking, nonconsensual pornography, and revenge porn are illegal in most of the usa.
Yup!
Nobody ‘leaked the nudes’ you shameless anonymous liar.
The nudes were discovered by a KF user on publicly available web site called ‘Amateur Voyeur Forum’ that this dumb-ass executive and his whore wife uploaded them to on June 1st 2016. All they did was post a link to this (as of this post) still publicly available post.
See how these people lie and distort the truth in order to advance this agenda of Neo-Soviet Speech Codes where criticism is outlawed?
Post the evidence of ‘hacking’ or STFU.
dayum seth cuz, thanks for further justifying the ISPs decision to enforce their AUPs on ya guys!
I think you misread it, how is it “noncosensual” if the subject already consented and went out of their way to publish their own nudes for the world to see? Cogent pretty clearly reacted to bad-faith takedown requests, including for posts that contained no private info or nsfw material.
that’s a cope there brudda.
Only some of the nudes were consensual stuff like from camgirling or photoshoots.
For instance the second thread that null describes as “leaks of public interest”, the photos were literally described by null himself as revenge porn and blackmail (he still didn’t want to take it down).
You must be referring to some other incident.
If you look in the thread that null posted about this titled”Cogent’s CEO is directly involved in trying to censor the Kiwi Farms”.
Under the heading “Leaks of Public Interest” He links to 3 threads:
The second thread is about a former administrator of ED. In that thread that user attempts to blackmail his ex-GF by threatening to leak her nudes.
A quote from Null on the matter:
“depending on aediot’s state this may be revenge porn, and 3) this might be extortion regardless of state.”
The third link is to a discussion about a youtuber who had their nudes stolen by a hacker. Quote from a kiwifarms user explaning the situation: “Someone hacked her and her nudes are out (being sold)”.
From that post: https://kiwifarms.net/threads/patrick-w-gilmore-he-him-is-a-fan-of-censorship-of-the-internet.168840/post-16831286
“You have to make an account to download the RAR.”
Not exactly public, yet the poster put them up anyways.
Keep on ignoring context.
Also: https://kiwifarms.net/threads/cogents-ceo-is-directly-involved-in-trying-to-censor-the-kiwi-farms.174372/post-17092212
Does Sir Foxy understand what the legal definition of a “common carrier” is? https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/common-carrier.asp
Do Tier 1 ISPs meet that legal definition?
If the answer to the latter question is “yes”, then NO Tier 1 ISP has any business policing content, outside of a LAWFUL COURT ORDER….END OF STORY.
No, legally ISPs are not common carriers. I think you should read this.
Right, and what’s the source of the bogus new classification of ‘internet information provider’ that was created out of whole cloth as a way for these companies to evade the regulations they would and should clearly be governed by as ‘telecommunications providers’?
The disastrous Telecommunications Act of 1996. The one that gave us the wasteland of the Clearchannel and almost total destruction radio. The one that gave us all the consolidation of the cable and broadcast television networks. The one that granted mobile phone providers total legal immunity from liability any health harms caused by their mobile phone products so long as they pass the farce of a cell phone exposure test concocted by the FCC, which coincidentally has not been updated since 1996. It also why we continue to get ripped off by these providers to this day. More here: https://www.avclub.com/the-telecommunications-act-of-1996-gave-us-shitty-cell-1798250823
A whole raft of evil was ushered in with this bill, a total sellout to industry interests, and that’s the bill you’re hanging your hat on as some kind of tactical libertarian “MUH PRIVATE COMPANY can arbitrarily refuse to transport any packets they don’t want to” argument?
We don’t accept the argument that MUH PRIVATE COMPANY open to the public can arbitrarily refuse service to customers that are in the store legally and not breaking any laws. So why would we accept the argument that MUH PRIVATE COMPANY can suddenly stop transporting the packets of a customer or downstream customer, WHEN THEY HAVE NOT BROKEN ANY LAWS?
Only closet totalitarians whose true spiritual home is somewhere *outside* of the USA accept this contradiction.
To restate the argument;
Do Tier 1 ISPs transport something, in this case packets of digital information, from one place to another for a fee?
Obviously the answer is yes.
Logically it follows that Tier 1 ISPs meet the definition of a ‘common carrier’, despite what Trump admin industry shills re-interpreted in 2018.
Witness the slew of state legislation enacted immediately in the wake of this bad ruling to re-implement status in several states, notable Washington, California and Oregon.
Try again.
Too Long, didn’t read.
I’m happy for you though…or sorry.
But kiwifarms has broken numerous laws. Are tier 1 ISPs obligated to transmit illegal material?
The cope is real here
Lie with dogs: https://www.reddit.com/r/LeopardsAteMyFace/comments/13mp3dd/kiwi_farms_webmaster_joshua_null_moon_is_shocked/
Are you upset that one of your favourite furry artists got outed as a pedo on kiwifarms?
I love how the author just handwaves away the rape allegation against Liz, the one which Liz has relabeled a “consent accident.” Not gonna lie, that is some Clinton-era euphemistic creativity, very impressive.
Very impressive too how the author dismisses the statement that Path employs alleged pedophile Mr. Barnhill who, by his own admission in a leaked voice call, is in possession of and regularly uses CSAM involving penetrative acts against children as young as six.
One can only assume the author condones both engaging in “consent accidents” and the consumption of CSAM involving the sexual abuse of prepubescent minors. Given the implications of his handle, his choice of avatar and the reputation of the furry community, this would not be surprising in the least.
Where is your evidence for any of this? If you are so confident in it then post it.
You do know Joshua Conner Moon supported child porn on his site right: https://metokur.us/index.php?threads/null-joshua-conner-moon-kiwinull-king-janny-kiwifarms-ooperator-troon-obsessed-neckbeardless-still-probably-lives-with-his-mom-in-florida.218/post-4467
Like you don’t realize you are helping to provide cover to a hypocrite?